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Are some Palestinians actually Jews?
12 July 2009 - כא תמוז תשסטThis is an amazing video by Tsvi Misinai, who interviews a number of Palestinians who claim to have Jewish heritage. Could there be many more Palestinians out there who are afraid to admit their Jewish ancestry?
To read more about Tsvi Misinai and his effort, The Engagement, please visit his website.
July 17th, 2009 - כו תמוז תשסט at 11:19 pm
As someone who has also studied the history of those “Palestinians” who are of Jewish ancestry, mainly through the writings of Yitzhak Ben Zvi, I have to be honest here and say that the figure mentioned in the video of at least 85% who are really Jews seems a little fantastic to me. Granted some elements of this population are Jewish – I would guess perhaps 20% (including most of the people of Yatta as you mentioned, and also a few tribes in what is now Jordan)- but 85% just doesn’t seem right. It should be noted that after the death of Mohammed, non-Jewish Arab tribes spread throughout the whole region from Morocco to Iraq, and occupied, colonized, and eventually dominated every land in that area at the expense of the indigenous peoples there. Why should “Palestine”, which is geographically in the middle of everything, be any different?
July 18th, 2009 - כו תמוז תשסט at 3:58 am
I have no reason do doubt you. Perhaps Tsvi Misinai will have some data to help you out with…
July 18th, 2009 - כו תמוז תשסט at 4:24 am
Genetic studies show that 82% of the Palestinians are close to the Jews. These show that Ashkenazi Jews and especially the Jews originating in the city of Rome, are closer to Saudi Arabian Arabs than the Palestinians are.
My field study, that among many other materials and testiminials is using material found by Yitzhak Ben Zvi, shows already, at this state, 50% of teh entire west of the Jordan Ruver Palestinians that are testifying as to their Jewish origin, and/or have Jewish religious customs and/or have Jewish family names. And we did not survey yet the entire population, but we do not expec tto find much more.
In my geneological-demographic-historic study I reached the numer of 89.5% for the end of 2008. The 85% is a number we reached few years earalier, before we succeeded to be more acurate.
geographical studies that are the most inacurate sho between 65% to 85%.
YOu are invited to read on all the studies in the booklet avaialble in the engagement website:
http://www.the-engagement.org
Furthermore, the settlement of Arab in the Holy land following teh death of Myhammed was nothing more than 4,000, mainly from two tribes. If you are interested in demography over the last 2000 years you are invited to read my book which is also reachabl eto purchase from the site. YOu can fidn there why about 35% of the Palestinians west of the Jordan River lost their knowledge about their Jewish-Israelite origon.
August 22nd, 2009 - ג אלול תשסט at 2:26 pm
I read the article today in the Jerusalem Post. I posted it on my Facebook page. Don’t give up this work!! This could be the solution to the problem!!
October 20th, 2009 - ב חשון תשע at 10:48 am
ISRAEL NEVER EVER WANTS PEACE-ONLY PALESTINE + PIECE BY PIECE
December 23rd, 2009 - ז טבת תשע at 7:55 pm
Tsvi,
I doubt this work, and I do not believe a genetic test matters. As far as I am concerned they can have any origin, colour, religion or genetic makeup, so long as they stop the incitement and aspire to live in peace and harmony with the Children of Israel. As a cynic, I won’t be holding my breath either.
December 28th, 2009 - יב טבת תשע at 5:40 pm
Será de fato o povo Palestino descendente dos Edomitas???
November 16th, 2010 - ט כסלו תשעא at 1:34 pm
I think you need to make your case stronger, if at all possible try to document as much of their heritage as you can while they are still alive since many of them are old and they would know far more than the younger generation. Your doing a great job and keep it up. I will do my best to spread this information out as well, the most important thing is to raise people’s awareness of our long history. Perhaps one state for one people will be the new political slogan. Keep up the good work! Let us know if there is anything we can do to help.
November 28th, 2010 - כא כסלו תשעא at 12:36 am
Hello everyone!!
I’ve been studying this subject for some time. I’m very interested in the history and culture of Israel and other middle eastern countries. I’m portuguese but i also have sephardic israelite origins. What happened in Israel during the arabian and ottoman occupation periods ressembles to some extent what happened in Portugal, Spain and South America, in the sense that many israelites were compelled/forced to quit their cultural identity.
As for the DNA studies, i have to say i find the conclusions of Ariella Oppenheimer partially doubtfull, more precisely, when she she afirms that the ashkenazim are the israelite subgroup whith the highest genetically proximity to the muslim population of Israel and Transjordan. Other genetic studies clearly suggest that the ashkenazim had in the past a high admixture with southern, central and eastern europeans (mostly between israelite males and european females). This admixture is evident by their physical looks. If that genetic proximity was so high, then it would be expected that the vast majority of ashkenazim would have physical looks similar to those of muslims and christians of Israel, Transjordan, Lebanon and Syria. I don’t think that’s the case.
The sephardim and the mizrahim, on the other hand, seem to be genetically closer to southern europeans, north africans, transjordanians, lebanese, syrians, armenians and turks. This genetic proximity has been proven by DNA studies. Their physical looks also reinforce these results.
It is also important to note that archaelogical and genetic studies suggest that the israelites emerged as canaanite subculture, meaning they had different origns since their early beggining. In this sense, the early israelite/canaanite people was made of egyptians, amelekites, edomites, nabateans, moabites, amonites, philistines, midianites, jebusites, phoenicians, amorites, hitites, hurrians and later on, assyrians, babylonians, persians, greeks, macedonians and romans.
Of course, the genetic impact of all these people on the israelites was not equal. The presence of hitites, hurrians and romans in Israel/Canaan for instance provides a partial explanation for the significant frequency of haplogroup R1b while the observed frequency of haplogroups E1b1b, J1, J2
among the 3 major israelite subgroups is resultant from the genetic impact of canaanites tribes with north african(ex:egyptians, amelekites), southern european (ex:philistines), arabian (ex:edomites, moabites, nabateans), anatolian and caucasian origins (hurrians, hitites) not to mention later invaders.
Moreover, the diaspora communities, would be subject to further admixture with other population(the ashkenazim being a particular case). In some cases this was voluntary and n other it was not.
It’s important to bare in mind though that if we consider the sephardi and mizrahi anusim, then one should reconsider the admixture level for these two israelite subgroups.
I hope more reasearch is done in this field. By the way, i would like to congratulate Tsvi Misinai for his hardwork, trying to reunite the israelite people. I’m an atheist zionist and i think this is a mission all modern zionists should work on.
Shalom aleichem!!
April 17th, 2011 - יד ניסן תשעא at 8:31 pm
RE:
Duarte Sousa Says:
“As for the DNA studies, i have to say i find the conclusions of Ariella Oppenheimer partially doubtfull, more precisely, when she she afirms that the ashkenazim are the israelite subgroup whith the highest genetically proximity to the muslim population of Israel and Transjordan. Other genetic studies clearly suggest that the ashkenazim had in the past a high admixture with southern, central and eastern europeans (mostly between israelite males and european females). This admixture is evident by their physical looks. If that genetic proximity was so high, then it would be expected that the vast majority of ashkenazim would have physical looks similar to those of muslims and christians of Israel, Transjordan, Lebanon and Syria. I don?t think that?s the case.”
Your argument fails if they are testing the Y chromosome, because it is only inherited from the mail donor. Looks can be deceiving. Also, please cite the genetic evidence that you cite.
July 23rd, 2011 - כא תמוז תשעא at 7:59 am
I read a comment about Palestinians being dominated by arabs spreading from Arabia after Islam. The fact of the matter is that people from Arabia settled in Palestine much earlier than Islam is. What would you say about the Christian Kingdom of the Ghassanids, or the Pagan Nabateans. Additionally, it is known that the Hebrews from whom the Children of Israel and Ishmael decsends from are predominantly of Arabian. so it does not really help much to talk about the Arabia connetion to Palestine particularly that Palestine sits at the northern tip of the Arabian peninsula.
The most point that people seems to keep brining up, as what is the post Islam contribution. In fact, central Arabia itself from which Islam spread out was sparsely populated. See for example their first attempt to conquer the Levant. They were 3000 Muslim facing 200,000 Roman soldiers. Note that Roman soldiers here are the people of the Levant who were recruited as part of the Roman army. Many of these were Arabs themselves! Again, they were client kings to Rome.
Herod’s the Great is another example of an Arabian who practiced Judaism. the Canaanites spread out of Arabia and so did the Babylonians.
Anyway, the word Jew derives from Judaism which is derived from Judea. No mention of the word Jew in the whole old testament. Palestine had three of four main geographies. Judea, Samaria, Galilee, and Negev. The Palestinians of Judea are without any question related to the tribes living there prior to Islam. In fact, the largest family in Hebron, Tamimi, has pre-Islamic origins and have been known to be Christians.
Finally, let’s not forget DNA studies. It shows that there is a genetic continuity between modern Palestinians and those inhabiting Palestine before the common era (BCE). On the other hand, most Ashkenazi Jews (60% of them) have paternal lines that are not of a middle eastern original. The maternal line is just even more diverse.
Mizrahi Jews have middle eastern DNA makeup of course as would be expected, but even that does not imply that they are Israelites! The Roman empire itself had 15% of its population non Pagan and practicing the religion that spread out of Judea, and hence were Jewish.
I think we should be all objective about what we are talking about here.
February 9th, 2012 - טז שבט תשעב at 2:10 am
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-58322.html
this study was done in chicago so i think that many palestinians outside of israel have jewish roots too. i do agree that the palestinians should be incoprorated into israel, but i support the palestinian right of return also.
February 14th, 2012 - כב שבט תשעב at 3:12 pm
Even though the Palestinian “right of return” would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state? Do you support or even know of any other refugees whose grandparents left or were kicked out and demanded to return to where they were from? Most people, in that situation, move on and settle in the new land. The problem is that the “new lands” were all Arab countries who never gave them citizenship, disabling their ability to move on…